Darwin writes about college debt.

Darwin, sparked by a discussion in the comments at Jennifer Fitz’s blog, uses some debt data as a jumping off point.

Suffice it to say: A lot of people borrow a lot of money to go to college. More and more people are doing so, and they’re borrowing more and more. Should we advise people not to do this?

On the one hand, it is clearly possible to get yourself into a lot of trouble with college debt….So if you’re contemplating taking out debt to pay for college, you need to think about what the payments are going to add up to. Look at the financial offer letter you get from your college, see how much borrowing they expect you to do in your first year, then multiply that by 5 (to hedge and deal with the possibility they may change your grant to loan ratio in later years) and run that number through a loan calculator.

For the last 11 years, MrsDarwin and I have been paying ~$250/mo towards paying off her college loans…I certainly would not consider it too high a price to pay for the education we got. Even though MrsDarwin hasn’t worked for the last 10 years, I would not remotely consider that money a bad investment. That said, if your situation is such that you’re looking at very high monthly loan payments to service your student debt, you need to do some serious thinking.

…Another important thing to consider in this regard is why you’re going to college. If, like me and MrsDarwin, you’re going to college for the purpose of deepening and broadening your education, you need to think about how much getting that education is worth to you.

If you are going in order to get some kind of professional degree or certification, it becomes a much more straightforward and monetary task: You need to … decide whether this professional education represents a good return on investment. Since you’re not pursing a professional degree or certification simply for the joy of learning or for the experience, it makes sense to be very hard nosed about the analysis involved and determine whether the risks and costs involved are worth it.

Handily, he compares average debt at my and Mark’s alma mater with his and MrsD’s.

(Mark and I didn’t have to take on any student loans at all, so our distaste for nondischargeable debt is in part borne of not experiencing it much).

I can’t argue with what Darwin has to say, except to add that I wonder — if you surveyed people who went to college hoping for a broadened, deepened education — how many of them would agree 15-20 years later that they were still happy to be paying it off at hundreds of dollars a month. I suppose it depends on what they think they got for their money.

Because the other side of the value question is — do people who go into debt for their education usually get the quality education they were expecting?

 

 


Comments

7 responses to “Darwin writes about college debt.”

  1. Christy P. Avatar
    Christy P.

    I wonder if we (you, me, and Mark) managed to experience the end of an era with regards to college financing. How many places still exist where one can get an honest-to-goodness full ride? (for the non-Heisman candidates, I mean)

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  2. Bearing Avatar
    Bearing

    I wondered that myself, and I went looking around. There is still a list of universities that offer full rides to National Merit Scholars — but not Ohio State anymore. Think about what is in it for the university. If they manage to capture a lot of NMS, they get to write about how they have lots of them, and they look like the sort of school that captures “top scholars.” We came in to OSU at a time when I suspect OSU was working hard to beef up its honors program. (remember – Honors House had just been renovated, and Honors Ambassadors was a new program). This was, if I recall correctly, on the heels of Toledo(?) having offered full rides to National Merit Scholars and captured a lot in previous years.
    OSU still offers some pretty good merit scholarships — I believe NMS still get full tuition, which is great. And they still have a handful of full rides to offer outside the NMS.
    Anyway, here is a list of national merit scholarship schools (don’t know how up to date it is) http://www.yornoodle.com/list-of-national-merit-scholarships/
    Wright State is one!

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  3. I did pretty well in the debt arena ($36, 000 for undergrad) considering that I went to a small, private liberal arts school (in St. Paul!) where tuition was running around $38,000 a year by the time I graduated. I paid cash for my masters (in state tuition at a large public university) which cost me about $15,000.
    My education was definitely worth it, and i think even higher quality than I expected. My undergrad in particular. I paid for my master’s and paid off my loan debt within 4 years of graduating, which was not a picnic, but very worth it. I think my loans would still be worth it even if I were still paying them, for the experiences and quality of education I received.
    Another factor I’ve been considering while reading this series, particularly your comparison of sibling earning power: what about families where parents are not college graduates? It’s fine if everyone is starting out at the same vaguely middle class starting point, but what about families below the poverty line? Would there be more relative benefit in college for them, or less? I was the first in my (working class, often below poverty level) family to go to college, and my salary for a not very glamorous job in a low paying region of the country is higher than my parents combined income after 35+ years of stable, dedicated work for “good” white collar companies. There is a stigma attached to not going to college which does have a generational impact, too, and that can’t be discounted in calculations.

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  4. There are, apparently, still a lot of people who graduate debt free, though it’s not necessarily because the tuition itself is low. A lot has to do with how generous the school is in providing non-loan (grant or work/study) financial aid.
    The Student Debt Project lists colleges with the highest and lowest percentages and average amounts of student debt:

    Click to access classof2010.pdf

    Also, this site allows you to look up lots of info by college or by state:
    http://college-insight.org/#explore
    Examples of colleges with surprisingly low rates of debt include Princeton University, where apparently on 21% of students graduate with any college debt, and for those who do graduate with debt the average debt load is under $5,000.
    By comparison, Ohio University in Athens, OH has 66% of students graduating with debt and an average load of $22,000 despite being a public university with much lower tuition.

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  5. I can’t argue with what Darwin has to say, except to add that I wonder — if you surveyed people who went to college hoping for a broadened, deepened education — how many of them would agree 15-20 years later that they were still happy to be paying it off at hundreds of dollars a month. I suppose it depends on what they think they got for their money.
    Because the other side of the value question is — do people who go into debt for their education usually get the quality education they were expecting?

    I don’t know how many people think that they got their money’s worth. Certainly, I think that our educations were worth it.
    And given how much more college graduates generally make than non-college graduates, the majority of graduates seem to get their money’s worth at a strictly financial level. But it wouldn’t surprise me if, at the margins, there’s some group of people who are convinced that they didn’t get much out of their education either qua education or in terms of career advancement. On the other hand, since the average student doesn’t take on much more debt for a college education than for a new Honda, I don’t think that’s the hugest danger.

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  6. “There are, apparently, still a lot of people who graduate debt free, though it’s not necessarily because the tuition itself is low. A lot has to do with how generous the school is in providing non-loan (grant or work/study) financial aid.”
    I have to say, I’m glad you pulled this stuff up. I really had no idea that there was such a disconnect between the tuition charged by a school and the debt load of its graduates. I had it in my head that there would be a roughly linear relationship, but you have demonstrated that it is not so.
    Do you get the impression that most of the financial aid you describe is need-based (calculated from the FAFSA?) I know our family doesn’t expect to qualify for any, but we sure wouldn’t think it reasonable to shell out the cash that FAFSA thinks we can contribute.

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  7. DarwinCatholic Avatar
    DarwinCatholic

    Do you get the impression that most of the financial aid you describe is need-based (calculated from the FAFSA?) I know our family doesn’t expect to qualify for any, but we sure wouldn’t think it reasonable to shell out the cash that FAFSA thinks we can contribute.
    A lot of the aid is need-based. My experience is a bit out of date (though I did have some close friend 15 years ago who were applying to the most expensive and academically competitive colleges in the country, and while costs have gone up even more since then these were colleges that were over $40k/yr even then) but from what I ran into back then and what I’ve read in sources like the WSJ’s recurring advice sections for parents of college students, the definition of “need” can be far wider than a lot of people would expect.
    Among the colleges that have large endowments and the ability to attract very wealthy students, they’ll put very high tuition numbers out there which only a tiny fraction of the student body actually pays all of, and then the endowment and the tuition paid by rich students is used to subsidize the rest of the students. The WSJ college sections have talked about families who make very solid six figure incomes who qualify for surprising amounts of financial aid grants based on “need” given high expenses (housing, etc.) and the number of other kids in the family.
    Anyway, I tried to see if I could save a report at the CollegeInsight site which shows average grants versus average tuition and average debt for Harvard, Steuvenville, OSU and Ohio Wesleyan (which I throw in because it’s a non-Catholic small liberal arts college which happens to be in our town of Delaware, OH.) The data is pretty illustrative:
    http://college-insight.org/#explore/go&h=b084af13d0db0fcbc1d71d00ff64a4eb
    Harvard has expenses of $50k, but they give 66% of their freshman grants and the average package of grants totals for a need-based financial aid recipient was $37k.
    By comparison, Steubenville charges $29k per year and gives 75% of their students grants, but the average total grant award is only $7k.
    So Harvard left their average financial aid qualified student to cover $13k/yr while Steubenville left their average financial aid qualified student to cover $22k. Add to this that the average Stuebenville student is probably much poorer than the average Harvard student, and it’s clear why they graduate with three times as much debt per debtor student (and a much higher of percentage of students owing debt) than Harvard students, despite Harvard tuition being $20k higher.
    OSU’s average grant package is similar to Steubenville’s, but their tuition is $7k lower.
    Ohio Wesleyan is the worse deal of all, leaving the average student getting financial aid to cover $24k/yr with something other than grants.

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